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In the “Fairmontism” Board Meeting November 2nd, 2013 – Interfaith Strategy?

November 4, 2013

Truth with Snares brings you serious satire with a message -

120px-StauntonPawn2Notes from the Board Meeting of the 12 Apostles – At the Vancouver City Temple of Fairmontism on November 2nd, 2013

Overview of 2013 Interfaith Meetings by the Prophet and Apostle Snow Flake:

This year we were able to welcome three key Christian evangelical leaders to our Joseph Rabbit Chasing University! Our interfaith meetings were truly a success filling up all the rooms even into the overflow rooms! As our founding father William Filthy Lucre Lordsburg said in our doctrinal papers we should not tussle with those of other faiths but show them our form of Christian love. Only by our kind of love will we show them the right path and lead them to becoming Gods as me. You must wrap your lives around theirs until the only path they see is that of Fairmontism.

We successfully invited Evangelical leaders: Dr. Grounds, Dr. Chips and Dr. Mauled to speak with us in the campus Lordsburg Varsity auditorium and we are looking forward to their return in 2014! Making our efforts extra special in January 2014, we will again be welcoming back Pastor Ralph Alpheus who has helped us to make these interfaith meetings possible starting over 20 years ago!

To brief our newest apostles on the board, the interfaith meetings in part got rolling with the work of Pastor Alpheus who we invited knowing his full stand against our religion. We wanted to show how we love those who hate us and once he came – how the friendships blossomed!

Today we can happily say after 20 years our strategy is working well and more recognize us as another mainline Christian faith! Here are a couple of the points made:

- In 2010 Dr. Grounds referred to us as the fourth Abrahamic faith now we just need them to recognize the history transcribed by William Lucre Lordsburg given him by the angel Gaius is genuine. Dr. Grounds even agrees we should not be named a cult!

- In October 2013, Dr. Chips recognized our history of us being persecuted religiously!

Founding father Lordsburg truly understood the meaning of patience while on this Earth, and he predicted many things within the thousands of prophetic papers. We must continue these interfaith dialogues, in spite of our Evangelical friends still being stuck on the Trinity of God, the atoning work of Jesus’ blood and so on, we must look past their errors and focus on the common ground we have with morality, family and marriage.

Apostle Strangelove made an observation in our last board meeting, he expressed concern that our evangelical friends may take issue that we view marriage as eternal and that our children become our literal god children in the next life. I am happy to report this issue has not come up and I do not believe it will be a problem anymore, especially with all of the focus being on that of the perversions of same sex marriage and other immoral behavior. It appears our Evangelical friends are able to look past those differences at least.

We must continue to have them come speak in our schools to help validate our religion to all even while they deny it saying we are theologically worlds apart. The ends justify the means, and as they continue to grace us at these speaking engagements our opportunities to win over their young believers to the true path of Fairmontism is growing exponentially.

I will bring an update at our next Apostles of Fairmont Board meeting scheduled March 15th, 2014 following the messages from our Evangelical pawns, oh I mean friends.

Southern Baptist Seminary President Speaks To Mormons About Joining Forces Against Secularism

November 1, 2013

From Way of Life Ministries Friday, November 1st, 2013: Southern Baptist Seminary President Speaks To Mormons About Joining Forces Against Secularism


“Heterosexuals did a very good job of undermining marriage before same-sex couples arrived with their demands. The marriage crisis is a moral crisis and it did not start with same-sex marriage, nor will it end there. Once marriage can mean anything other than a heterosexual union, it can and must mean everything. It is just a matter of time” (Mohler at Brigham Young).

Dr. David Cloud responded, “Those are brilliant statements. He knows what is happening and sees what is coming, but he understands neither the root cause nor the solution. As for the root cause, it is the apostasy and compromise of the churches, and his own Southern Baptist Convention has as much guilt in this as any. He proposes a poisonous solution to heal the disease.”

For the rest of Dr. Cloud’s article click here or title

For more on this whole debacle read our article:

Biblical Interfaith Meetings – the 3rd Way using Land, Wood and Mohler

Top Seven Reasons Why Not to Speak at Mormon Interfaith Meetings

October 28, 2013

Truth with Snares – Top Seven Reasons Why Not to Speak at Mormon Interfaith Meetings
Linked to article: Biblical Interfaith Meetings – the 3rd Way using Land, Wood and Mohler

  1. You must rationalize that it is ok to go to BYU on the issues of “common ground” with the defense of marriage, the family. While we know and address the utter insanity that is making perverted sexuality the new norm in our society there are no scriptures where God makes exceptions for academic institutions for us to come together with cults. We are to mark and avoid false teachers and not place ourselves under Mormon “general authority.” “Each of the lecture speakers in this series were accompanied by a general [Mormon] authority.” (Source: BYU Universe)
  2. A Bible believing Christian leader should never go to the Mormons (or other cults) to have interfaith ‘dialogue’ plus make plans for future interfaith conversations on “temporal or eternal” things as stated. Dialogue is not debate. There can be dialogue for the things about marriage and the family in the societal setting in which we live, without compromising. On eternal differences that there can be no dialogue, we are absolute that our God is true and the Mormon god is not one at all. Secondly, Mormons define marriage as eternal, and even children are looked upon in a different manner from Bible believing Christians.
  3. Dr. Mohler did state some of the differences well. He very briefly stated what he believes to be true (I would infer about what the Gospel is) when he said, “I believe that salvation comes only to those who believe and trust only in Christ and in his substitutionary atonement for salvation. I believe in justification by faith alone, in Christ alone”, the listener must understand what Dr. Mohler speaks of is Christ’s blood atonement for sin to all that believe in Him – and the faith we have is the gift of God. We can only attain that atonement, that forgiveness of sin by faith through Christ Jesus alone. However, Dr. Mohler contrary to his presentation was not a true friend (holding back nothing), but as a worldly friend not condemning Mormon as we have seen with the others in this lecture series. If we truly love the Mormons, we tell them the whole truth not a partial truth leaving out the need of repentance.
  4. The “irreconcilable differences” are many with Mormons versus Christians. By not including the foremost issue, the fraud of Mormon beliefs, you may win their friendship but you have done nothing to show Christ’s love for them and turn them from their hell bound state. You fail to be a true friend by not addressing the worship of a false god. Luke 6:27 “But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,” – doing good is sharing the whole counsel of God that Mormonism is a lie!
  5. Not a single scripture was given (at least from what is provided as being said on Dr. Mohler’s own website) to support what he said that the power of the Bible just might reach and save one lost Mormon soul. Isaiah 55:11.
  6. This was not as the Apostle Paul at Mars Hill Acts 17:23 “For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.” The Mormon believes fervently they serve the God of the Bible, but also of the Book of Mormon another god – little “g” intended, because they serve a fictitious god invented by man with a gospel of men.
  7. I believe Dr. Mohler’s, statements of differences: “irreconcilable”, “not going to heaven together”, and “speaking only what we believe to be true” show him to be hiding his hatred of Mormonism in order to gain this audience and another meeting scheduled in February 2014. I will address this momentarily in the article. (Back to:
    Biblical Interfaith Meetings – the 3rd Way using Land, Wood and Mohler)

I am not saying this list is all the reasons but those that first came to mind…

Biblical Interfaith Meetings – the 3rd Way using Land, Wood and Mohler

October 28, 2013

From the first Biblical interfaith meeting in 1 Kings 18 when God’s Prophet Elijah met with the prophets of Baal, to the Apostle Paul revealing the true identity of their unknown God to the Greeks in Acts 17:23, and I have recently learned a number of Christian leaders have purportedly found a third methodology to successful interfaith meetings with Mormons.

At the invitation of Mormon leaders a number of Christian leaders have agreed to speak at the Mormon’s most prestigious school, Brigham Young University (BYU). Starting this past September and continued into October 2013, the BYU Universe student news service has headlined, “Interfaith Lecture Series a huge success on BYU campus.” (Source) The series has done so well the plans for more meetings in 2014 have already been announced. Here are some of the Christians leading the charge so far:

-          Dr. Richard Land, President of Southern Evangelical Seminary of Charlotte, NC on September 6th
-          Dr. George O. Wood, General Superintendent of the Assembly of God September 16th
-          Dr. Albert Mohler, President of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary on October 23rd 2013.

Mormon students have been filling their auditoriums by the thousands over the past couple months to hear these men speak!

So are these Christian leaders bringing the Gospel of the true Jesus Christ, and reveal the Mormon god is no god at all? According to at least one of the Mormon leaders organizing these meetings the answer is, no. The stated purpose of these interfaith lectures is,

“…not to discuss the differences in doctrine between the LDS church and other religions, but rather is to build on common values and to encourage students to take an active part in defending family, their faith and community. “It’s about what we do have in common and what we can do to strengthen our society and our families,”said BYU Dean of Religious Education, Brent Top.  (Source: BYU Universe)

In light of that stated purpose, should Christian leaders accept the invitations and speak at these interfaith meetings at this Mormon university? Apparently these men did not take issue and seized what they believe to be an opportunity given them by God.

“BYU students arrived at the Wilkinson Center in hoards to hear a lecture by Richard D. Land, President of the Southern Evangelical Seminary Sept. 6 [2013].  … We were pleasantly surprised when so many students arrived to listen to the lecture. About 1,000 BYU students crammed into the Wilkinson Student Center, filling one lecture room and two overflow rooms. … Land was the first of many religious leaders to address BYU students in this series. The new lecture series, “Lectures on Faith, Family, and Society,” is a series focused on bringing people of all different faiths together based on common values: family, faith and community.” September 16, 2013, Interfaith Lecture Series a huge success on BYU campus, (Source: BYU Universe)

Top, introduced Dr. Land,

“…as highly qualified to instruct on these issues. “Dr. Land is truly an example of what each BYU student and faculty member seeks to be — a disciple scholar,” Top said.” September 18, 2013, Baptist minister shares beliefs with a BYU audience (Source: BYU Universe)

Next on September 18th 2013, came Dr. George Wood, Assembly of God General Superintendent,

“A recent push by the Quorum of the Twelve to promote religious freedom has led to much interfaith discussion and many opportunities, including this second lecture of the Faith, Family, and Society series. Before Wood took the stage, Professor Andrew Skinner, of the Department of Ancient Scripture, introduced Wood as a man of incredible faith and devotion. You can feel the Spirit of God with him when you shake his hand,” Skinner said.” September 17, 2013, Assembly of God CEO addresses BYU students. (Source: BYU Universe)

According to the discernment site Dr. Wood received a prolonged standing ovation at the finish,

“I went on then to share my experience of faith, and ended by noting that faith is not subjective but is based on the objective reality of Jesus Christ risen from the dead. The students listened in rapt attention and when I was finished, gave a prolonged ovation. I leave the results to the Lord.” Statement credited to Dr. Wood. (Source: TruthKeepers)

Most recently on October 21, 2013 Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr., President of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, presented a lecture called, “A Clear and Present Danger: Religious Liberty, Marriage and Family in the Late Modern Age” Source, October 23, 2013, Southern Baptist shares beliefs with a BYU audience. (BYU Universe)

And the rooms filled again. The Holy Spirit must have been moving for these men to speak at this center of Mormon, Latter Day Saint education right? The Mormons ensured their leadership was represented on stage with each of the lecture speakers so the students would know the lectures had their support,

“Each of the lecture speakers in this series were accompanied by a general [Mormon] authority.” (Source: BYU Universe)

For Mohler’s lecture, on stage with him was, Richard G. Hinckley, an emeritus seventy for Wood, Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and for Land I cannot find a statement or records since those arranging these interfaith lectures decided NOT to record them. (Source: TruthWithSnares email with BYU public contact and response)

Perhaps these lecture speakers believe they are walking in the footsteps of once famous preacher D. L. Moody. D.L. Moody said he was preaching against sin in the strongest way to the Mormons when at their Tabernacle in Salt Lake City. Here is what D. L. Moody reportedly said just over 100 years ago,

“I commenced on sin. I believe Mormons are just as much sinners as the rest of us. I bore down as hard as I could on sin; and when I got through, I said:  “You have heard this. Do you want to break with sin? Are you tired and sick of sin?” I said, “Take time to consider; don’t act on the impulse, but just consider. If there is one in this house that wants to break with sin, I am going to ask you to rise and stand while I pray. I put it fair and square, and gave them perhaps five minutes before I brought them to a decision, and do you know, almost the whole crowd rose! Tears rolled down their cheeks.” (Source: D.L. Moody, Sermon 120 Moody’s Latest Sermons)

Even the well-known D.L. Moody while rightly calling Mormons to repentance failed to mention they must renounce their false prophet Joseph Smith and his false gospel. Perhaps these Christian leaders speaking in 2013 are seeing Mormons abandoning a host of unorthodox and blasphemous teachings  and now they are going to their knees in sorrow and tears before the One True God of the Bible. Perhaps they are repenting before our God who in the strongest language condemns them, and other cults like theirs.

Why is pointing out the Mormon god is a false god so important?

The Bible specifically warns of supposed angels from heaven preaching another Gospel. Mormons claim Joseph Smith’s vision of an angel named Moroni brought him God’s word in 1827. But I believe my Bible,

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

The Bible says Mormons are ACCURSED, but these speakers must know something none of the rest of us do. Their new third way of interfaith meetings must use some hidden method, they must be witnessing a real change in order to have some of the Mormon’s highest leaders there on stage with them. They must be seeing a genuine turning to the true Jesus Christ of the Bible. The God who is part of the Trinity that the faithful Mormon rejects — right?

Just like in the 1800s with D.L. Moody, and possibly why other preachers have NOT gone to the Mormons that is, until men like Ravi Zacharias started working with BYU back in 1994 (approximately). Bible believing leaders have mostly shunned Mormons and not met on “commonalities.” I believe even D.L. Moody was duped by the Mormons of his day, and we are not seeing these Mormon students leaving BYU and coming to our churches as a result.

I believe we will continue to see more Moroni angel idols raised, not razed upon new Mormon temples.

I believe unless God, author of the Holy Bible is a liar, (not the god of multiple so-called bibles of Mormons/LDS), these Christian leaders may think they speak for God, but they cannot be. They think they are doing God a favor obeying Him by the leading of the Holy Spirit (according to what I read from them) and even making friends of Mormons. (That is not the same thing as being friendly towards or showing Christian hospitality.)  These actions are the opposite of what the Bible teaches us to do with our spiritual enemies. The Bible says in,

James 4:4 “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.”

 I can hardly believe what I have been reading, these key leaders of a Biblical Christian persuasion making friends of God’s enemies?  That is what I see and what I am reading. Adding to this, Wood in his presentation offered words of consolation to the Mormons,

Wood said, “Like the LDS we were a very marginalized minority, and even persecuted,” Wood said. “We had preachers that were tarred and feathered and driven out of town because we had this experience that others didn’t understand.” (September 17, 2013, Assembly of God CEO addresses BYU students, BYU Universe)

Wood validates to what I read is really revised Mormon history (from the Mormon’s perspective) that I believe is a very tainted history of persecution. Mormon history stands in direct contrast to the history I read pointing to citizens who were reacting to driving the Mormon hoodlums (criminals) out of town – a far cry from religious persecution. (For more here is one source: Are Christians persecuting Mormons?)

During his message,

“Wood spoke of an experience he had two years earlier with Mormon Apostle, [one of their Quorum of Twelve Apostles], Elder Holland, at a conference in Utah.  In response to a question from Wood, Elder Holland expressed that his greatest worry about the young generation was that they would grow coarse to the values and principles taught by Jesus Christ.

“His response immediately bonded my heart to him,” Wood said. “Any Assembly of God preacher could say the same thing. We just absolutely share that in common.” (Source: BYU Universe)

By befriending Mormons, the Latter Day Saints who follow the teachings of their prophet Joseph Smith, I believe Dr. Mohler and other Christian speakers make themselves “…coarse to the values and principles taught by Jesus Christ,” by making friendship through perceived commonalities of marriage and family more important than our differences in scriptures to these enemies of God.

In that key portion wherein Dr. Mohler refers to the Gospel, he said,

“This is what brings me to Brigham Young University today. I am not here because I believe we are going to heaven together. I do not believe that. I believe that salvation comes only to those who believe and trust only in Christ and in his substitutionary atonement for salvation. I believe in justification by faith alone, in Christ alone. I love and respect you as friends, and as friends we would speak only what we believe to be true, especially on matters of eternal significance. We inhabit separate and irreconcilable theological worlds, made clear with respect to the doctrine of the Trinity. And yet here I am, and gladly so. We will speak to one another of what we most sincerely believe to be true, precisely because we love and respect one another.”

I believe Dr. Mohler’s intellectual defense of accepting the invitation to speak at BYU, was an egregious error. While I certainly agree with Dr. Mohler and others about the dangers facing all faiths that hold traditional views of marriage and family, there are many reasons why Bible believing Christians do not follow their examples. Here are Seven of My Top Reasons Not to Speak at Mormon Interfaith Meetings.

Dr. Mohler and the others who are willing to unite on a generic common ground with Mormons, it begs the question, does that indicate they will follow this same path with every other religion/cult out there holding to traditional values?

The foundation of the Gospel was not built by meeting on common ground with any other religious belief system in the world, the opposite is true.

John 15:18-19 “If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.”

Mormonism is a gospel of man, it is of this world not of Christ, or of the God of the Bible. It is not as Dr. Land said of Mormons prior to this lecture series,

“I do not think Mormonism is an orthodox Christian faith, with a small O. I think perhaps the most charitable way for an evangelical Christian to look at Mormonism is to look at Mormonism as the fourth Abrahamic faith. (Source: Apprising Ministries of Pastor Ken Silva) [Bold emphasis mine]

Mormonism is a cult. Dr. Land does these lost souls no favors by saying it is not. These Christian leaders have in my opinion forgotten key scriptures warning them of this dangerous ground. Remember these?

Galatians 1:10-12 “For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.”

2 Corinthians 11:4-5 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]. For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.

2 Corinthians 11:12-15 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”

Dr. Mohler, and other speakers, I believe you validated the Mormon leadership by calling them “friend,” you have stepped into a snare set by those who follow one of the greatest con artists of the 19th century, Joseph Smith the inventor of the Mormonism. While working to defend the family, and morality, you forget the most important thing is to earnestly contend for the faith; the basic tenet of Biblical discernment – you have erred.

Jude 1:3-4 “Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”

The Mormons were founded by men befitting these scriptures – Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, unless you believe their version of history to be correct?  I am not saying I am perfect and that tomorrow someone may trick me in some manner. However, I know what I am saying to be true, and if you are sticking close to the Word of God alone then you also know what I say is true.

Dr. Land, Dr. Wood and Dr. Mohler – If you are reading this I want you to know I wept for you!

Why such a hard message about Mormons some ask it is because the Bible teaches “accursed” in Galatians 1:6-9 means,

Strongs Exhaustive Concordance, “331 ἀνάθεμα anathema an-ath’-em-ah” is the strongest condemnation a person can have. “… A thing devoted to God without hope of being redeemed… therefore a person or thing doomed to destruction 2a) a curse 2b) a man accursed, devoted to the direst of woes”

These speakers know the Mormons worship a false God, a false Jesus with a false Gospel the Bible specifically calls accursed. They are using misguided notions that some common social issues where cults and other religions agree can be legitimate rallying points for the true and only God. Have they forgotten we live in a day where many lines that separate Christianity as an exclusive faith are being blurred at every turn?  Is there really room to wiggle to say let’s get together on marriage, family and sexuality with Mormons? These Christian leaders got their eyes off the ball and are in real theological trouble. The Bible must be the last word in this matter!

Galatians 1:8 “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

Dr. Mohler’s closing words left open a door that should not be open without repentance being said,

“I come as a Christian, and I come as one who is honored by your kind and gracious invitation. I come in the hope of much further conversations, conversations about urgencies both temporal and eternal.”

At the conclusion of his speech, Mohler spoke frankly about some of the fundamental differences between LDS doctrine and Southern Baptist doctrine. He said they should not get in the way of defending the commonalities between them.

“Mohler said, Mormons and evangelicals “share love for the family, love for marriage, love for the gift of children, love of liberty and love of human society. We do so out of love and respect for each other and out of the gift of a growing and genuine friendship.” “It has been my great privilege to know friendship and share conversation with leaders of the LDS Church, such as Elder Tom Perry, Elder Quentin Cook and Elder Todd Christofferson,” he added. While Mohler’s noteworthy speech once might have been considered rare, today it fits within a larger framework of interfaith outreach.” (Source: Deseret News)

“I’m not here because I believe we’re going to heaven together. I do not believe that, and yet I am here and gladly so,” Mohler said. “Your faith has held high the importance of marriage and family. Your theology requires such an affirmation, and it is lovingly lived out by millions of Mormon families. That is why I and my Evangelical brothers and sisters are so glad to have Mormon neighbors. We stand together for the natural family, for the natural marriage.”

It is one thing to have a Mormon neighbor it is another thing to join with them as friends as these men are doing. While I completely agree on the dangers our world presents they are nothing new and other leading men of faith have not crossed the chasm that separates the Bible believing Christian from the Mormon cultist.

According to the Deseret News more of these meetings are planned in 2014:

In January [2014], the Deseret News has confirmed, [Ravi] Zacharias will return to Temple Square to speak from the Tabernacle pulpit again. He also will appear at BYU as part of the same lecture series as Land, Wood and Mohler.”

“Mohler will return to BYU on Feb. 25 to deliver a nationally televised, campuswide forum address.”

Another discernment site article looking at Zacharias and his involvement here: The Smoldering Ash Heap of Ravi Zacharias Ministries. (Link here).

Closing thoughts

The article Mormon Church Is Now Christian, by Apprising Ministries in 2007 is just as applicable today with these current leaders,

“Oops, I guess all these distinguished apologists in this “consortium of Christians” missed this bit of information about the LDS church from Dr. Walter Martin, widely regarded as “the father of modern Christian cult apologetics.” It was only in his classic textbook The Kingdom Of The Cults Dr. Martin warned the unwary that:

“it is evident for all to see that Mormonism strives with great effort to masquerade as the Christian church complete with an exclusive message, infallible prophets, and higher revelations for a new dispensation that the Mormons would have us believe began with Joseph Smith, Jr. But it is the verdict of both history and biblical theology that Joseph Smith’s religion is a polytheistic nightmare of garbled doctrines draped with the garment of Christian terminology. This fact, if nothing else, brands it a non-Christian cult system.

Those who would consider Mormonism would be greatly profited by a thoughtful consideration of the facts and evidence previously discussed [in this book], lest they be misled into the spiritual maze that is Mormonism (259, emphasis added)” (Source: Apprising Ministries)

Even if Dr. Mohler or other leaders are really working surreptitiously with the rest of the conversation, especially on the matters of eternal urgency that is not the Biblical way and I can tell you how that will go. We need to speak with the boldness of the Prophet Elijah,

1 Kings 18:21 “And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD [be] God, follow him: but if Baal, [then] follow him. And the people answered him not a word.”

Or as Apostle Paul as he boldly presented the Gospel and suffered greatly for it,

Acts 26:26 “For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.”

And as the Apostle Luke said,

Luke 11:33 “No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth [it] in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.”

The Gospel should not be hidden. We must declare the clear Gospel of our God and Savior – reminding them of the jealous God we serve that loves us so dearly.

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;

From all appearances these leaders were allowed to speak within some preset confines; and the Mormons made it a point to state they had a “general authority” present. The ground rules were unacceptable because they would not to approve a true Gospel message. It appears to me if these leaders had deviated to share the Gospel in a clear fashion, sharing they are sinners and need to repent of their false beliefs they would have been shown the door and not invited to return in 2014. I was ready to commend Dr. Mohler if he had taken that step of faith and told him so in an email that appears to have fallen on deaf ears?

The only hope for the Mormon is to hear the whole truth that the God we worship, and His only Son Jesus Christ can save us.

Romans 3:24-25 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”

Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

For more related articles to these interfaith meetings and gatherings on common grounds:

Why The LDS/Mormon Church Will NEVER Be Part Of The Body Of Christ
An answer to the efforts of people like Greg Johnson (Standing Together), Richard Mouw (Fuller Theological Seminary), Craig Hazen (Biola University), Ravi Zacharias (RZIM) and many others who are attempting to forge some kind of “Evangelicals And Mormons Together” alliance out of thin air by Sandy Simpson, 10/26/05

For more on the dangers of Mormonism:

A Chart and More Showing the Differences of Christianity to Mormonism from Stand Up for the Truth

The Problem with Witnessing to Mormons – Stand Up for the Truth

Similarities to things already tried in the past in the name of “common ground”:

Herescope: Manifestos, Declarations and Covenants

Herescope: A Covenant for Civility – A New Order of the Third Way

Other articles on this topic From Truth With Snares:

Southern Baptist Leader Dr. R. Albert Mohler to “Dialogue” with Mormons!?

Charismania Gone Nuts – AOG Together with LDS!

National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) Or “National Association of Neo-Evangelicals”?

Southern Baptist Leader Dr. R. Albert Mohler to “Dialogue” with Mormons!?

October 17, 2013

Southern Baptist Leader Dr. R Albert Mohler to “Dialogue” with Mormons!?

 “To the contrary, I believe that it is a false gospel that, however sincere and kind its adherents may be, leads to eternal death rather than to eternal life.” – Dr. R. Albert Mohler as quoted in Christian Post March 11th, 2011, Evangelicals, Mormons Search for Common Ground in Utah

There are some strange things going on with leaders from both the Assembly of God and Southern Baptists together with Mormons holding lectures that are not being recorded – why are these lectures not public!?

The third of a series of apparent secretive lectures is at the Mormon Brigham Young University scheduled to be held next week, October 21st, 2013 (details here: Dr. R. Albert Mohler’s lecture is called, A Clear and Present Danger: Religious Liberty, Marriage and Family in the Late Modern Age.

What comes as a surprise to me is Dr. Mohler, who in the recent past has stood against being involved in interfaith/ecumenical “prayer” or “worship” meetings, agreed to be a speaker at BYU!  In an interview on Issues and Etc. February 2013, on the topic of  Abandoning the Public Square.

Dr. Mohler states he’d stake his reputation on seeking to avoid participating in an interfaith “prayer” or “worship” service. Dr. Mohler made this point very clear even stating “I can’t imagine finding myself in such a position” and then even for the sake of argument if he “fell out of a helicopter” he would be compelled to share the Gospel that there is only one God and His only son is Jesus Christ.

While I would agree with Dr. Mohler on the points made about a interfaith prayer or worship service, this lecture series at BYU is not being recorded for all to hear. These lectures I am told by a BYU representative,

“Unfortunately, it was decided not to record the lectures.  Sorry.”

The same contact said this in another email to our friends at Stand  Up For The Truth:

“Amy, Thank you for your email.  I can appreciate your concern, but as you might anticipate from the last presidential election new doors of friendship have been opened.  Friendships blossom from getting to know each other and sharing in dialogue.  Dr. Mohler is actually coming to Utah at an invitation from the Church leadership and while he is in Utah he is speaking at BYU.  His topic is in an area where he is both an expert and where he and our church have common values.

I hope you will attend his lecture on Monday at 12:00 noon in the Varsity Theater.


As we saw with the meeting in September with Dr. George Wood of the Assembly of God the value the Mormons are putting on these meetings! Charismania Gone Nuts – AOG Together with LDS!

“Wood showed that God is playing a role in all religions and that Christians are more united than they sometimes think.” Quote from, Assembly of God CEO addresses BYU students

My point, the Mormons are seeing these meetings as interfaith and these speakers are their mission field! Need more? From the article linked above, “A recent push by the Quorum of the Twelve to promote religious freedom has led to much interfaith discussion and many opportunities, including this second lecture of the Faith, Family, and Society series.” [Bold emphasis mine]

The Quorum of Twelve are some of the highest ranking leaders in the Church of Latter Day Saints! It is dialogue the Mormons are after not debate! Remember what was said in response to the purpose of this meeting earlier, “His topic is in an area where he is both an expert and where he and our church have common values.”

It is beyond naïve’ to think the Mormons are not seizing this opportunity. Any Bible believing Christian leader standing with the Mormons on their turf are seriously deceived if they think they are doing the right thing with God! Oddly enough in the MP3 interview with Mohler he mentions one of the very things he should be saying to this Mormon audience he will have next Monday:

1 Kings 18:21 “And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD [be] God, follow him: but if Baal, [then] follow him. And the people answered him not a word.”

The Mormons worship a different God and a different Jesus – A false God! This voluntary association joins you with a cult that denies our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  They would never have invited Dr. Mohler if it was for the purpose of preaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ! The opportunities come after this sort of association and the Mormons I fully expect to exploit it as they did with Dr. Wood! Dr. Wood points out this quote while attributed to him he didn’t say it the writers of BYU Universe did, “Wood showed that God is playing a role in all religions and that Christians are more united than they sometimes think.”

As I stated in an unanswered email over two weeks ago when I first heard Dr. Mohler was scheduled to speak at BYU, I admonished Dr. Mohler,

9/29/13 I sent this via

Dr. Mohler,

I write as a brother in Christ. I am deeply concerned with the rampant ecumenism (in the guise of interfaith work) going on.

Are you taking the same positions being stated by Dr. Wood and Dr. Land? Hearing that you are speaking at BYU gave me pause… reason I see you as their Mormon mission field!

Hearing that Dr. Wood got a standing ovation I don’t think that indicated they would be tearing down any Moroni idols and flocking to our Baptist churches! Just like the Muslim, they translate what we say in witness into their language. I believe you know that and hope they throw you out of there for clearly defining our God! I mean that in the best possible way!

Dr. Mohler so you know I am not just another yahoo out there :-) I have been exposing the ecumenism ongoing for some time. You can ask my good mutual friend Pastor [name omitted here], I believe if he is able will vouch for my character.


I can see no legitimate context for Dr. Mohler speaking at Brigham Young University to discuss A Clear and Present Danger: Religious Liberty, Marriage and Family in the Late Modern Age. The clear and present danger is Dr. Mohler’s actions and the message this sends to thousands, possibly millions of Bible believing Christians!

For more related to this fiasco here are some other links:

George Wood, Al Mohler and more questions about Mormonism

A Response to AOG’s Superintendent Wood

From Apprising Ministries to show this has been going on for some time with Dr. Richard Land of the Southern Baptists:

SBC’s Richard Land Says Mormonism Fourth Abrahamic Faith

National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) Or “National Association of Neo-Evangelicals”?

September 29, 2013

This is a “repost” of a Biblical Discernment article from 2004. It will become evident why I have brought this back up when you connect it to Assembly of God’s General Superintendent’s speaking at a Brigham Young University for their “Interfaith Lecture” series - Wow why has no one done this sooner!? Wood even got a standing ovation for his Gospel presentation so I am sure we will be seeing the Mormons leaving their cult and coming to our churches in droves right? Wood is helping to carry the torch of the NAE – and we better watch who is joining him in that effort!

National Association of Evangelicals (NAE)

Or “National Association of Neo-Evangelicals”?

-  The NAE is the mainline neo-evangelical group. In recent years it has become increasingly ecumenical and charismatic. Charisma magazine said about 51 percent of NAE church members are Pentecostal. Some reports say it’s 80 percent when charismatic churches are included, though most of these are independent. The NAE claims that Pentecostals have developed a base of trust within the NAE, though NAE conferences as yet have no tongues-speaking. By courting and accepting Pentecostal churches, organizations, and individuals, the NAE has given the false teachings of the Pentecostal movement an undeserved aura of theological respectability within evangelicalism, something that they had not previously been accorded by the mainline denominations which were a part of the ecumenical movement. With Ted Haggard, an Oral Roberts University grad and a charismatic, as its current president, the NAE can no longer disclaim its charismatic orientation. NAE chairman Bill Hamel says: “Ted crosses denominational and theological lines very easily” (6/03, Charisma). Foundation says: “Haggard writes a monthly column for a Charismatic magazine and frequently unites for ministry and worship with men such as Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch, and C. Peter Wagner. He participated in the Promise Keepers Pastors and Leadership Conference in February 2003.”

John White, former president of the NAE, says there is also a growing cooperation between the NAE and Roman Catholics (11/1/92, Calvary Contender). (A brochure promoting NAE’s 50th anniversary convention in 3/92 listed Notre Dame professor James Burtchaell as a luncheon speaker. Burtchaell resigned from Notre Dame amid sexual misconduct charges, and subsequently, from the NAE engagement also.) [The NAE currently claims to represent 43,000 congregations from 52 denominations and individual congregations from an additional 27 denominations (many of the latter are still members of denominations in the NCC/WCC). They claim to have 22 million members, and "speak for" some 40 million evangelicals in America. See last section of this report for the most recent information on the NAE.]

-  The NAE is a melting pot for new evangelicals of every stripe, including charismatics, so-called “evangelical” Catholics, ecumenists, feminists, and pseudo-fundamentalists. Theologically, they represent the whole spectrum — everything from Mennonite to Reformed Presbyterian, from Baptist to Lutheran, Pentecostal, and holiness. Don Argue, an Assemblies of God pastor, was the NAE president (1995-2001); he was committed to making the NAE a politically correct organization since it is “too old, too white, and too male,” by recognizing that the “evangelical table is broad and wide and long …” In late-1996, Argue became the first president of the NAE to speak to the apostate National Council of Churches in America (NCC), an arm of the radically liberal World Council of Churches. Argue said he had developed a “good relationship” with the NCC’s general secretary, Joan Brown Campbell (11/19/96, Ecumenical News Agency). Argue said he had no difficulty recognizing NCC leaders as fellow Christians.

According to Religion Watch, the NAE took part in formal discussions with the Eastern Orthodox churches and is already engaging in ecumenical evangelism with the Orthodox in largely Orthodox post-communist countries. According to Religion Watch, the NAE has come to the view that “we cannot go in with our normal historic pattern of assuming that the whole culture is not Christian [and this] has impacted most of the mission-sending groups — for example, John Guest and his evangelistic efforts. When he goes into Romania, he seeks the cooperation of the Orthodox church. I don’t think that would have happened before these discussions and this new awareness.” [At it's 2003 convention, the NAE even permitted the Roman Catholic Church and the Greek Orthodox Church to lease exhibit space!]

-  The NAE has a series of commissions which attract people with special interests. Most of them do not even bear the name of the NAE. They act as flypaper to catch those with an interest in certain subjects. Such commissions are the Evangelical Foreign Missions Associations, the World Relief Commission, The Commission on Chaplains, the Evangelism and Spiritual Life Commission, The National Religious Broadcasters, The Social Concern Commission, The National Sunday School Commission, the National Association of Christian Schools, and the Theology Commission. One can see at a glance how these commissions tend to attract innocent victims who are interested in the chaplainry, missions, Sunday school, or Christian schools. Through his particular interest, the victim finds himself unintentionally affiliated with the NAE.

The NRB used to be a “commission” of NAE, but split-off in early-2001, ending a relationship that went back to 1944. Karl Stoll, communications director of the NRB, said the decision was based on the NAE’s growing relationship with the modernistic National Council of Churches. In February 2000, the NAE changed its bylaws to allow member denominations to hold joint membership in the NCC. In September 2000, the Los Angeles Times reported that the NAE and the NCC “are considering realigning and forming a third group.” Kevin Mannoia, head of the NAE at the time of the NRB split, told the Times that “the block walls are coming down and giving way to picket fences.” (To disassociate from the NAE is a wise move on the part of the NRB, but it is very puzzling. For one thing, many member denominations and organizations of the NRB are separately members of the NAE. It is meaningless for the NRB as a body to “pull out of” the NAE when at the same time its individual members remain members in good standing of the latter. It looks like mere religio-political posturing.)

-  The March-April 1992 issue of Foundation magazine did a lengthy report on the NAE’s 50th Anniversary meeting held in Chicago on 3/5/92. Billy Melvin, NAE’s Executive Director, boasted at Chicago that “The NAE is the voice you can trust.” Sadly, this is simply not true. The following paragraphs summarize Foundation ‘s report:

(a) NAE was established in St. Louis, Missouri, April 7-9, 1942. NAE leaders boasted of its numerical growth; of its success in providing “leadership for a dynamic and diverse movement”; of its ability to “unite evangelicals from many theological perspectives and ecclesiastical traditions”; and of its “continuing fidelity to its original Statement of Faith.” The establishment of the NAE was actually a repudiation of historic fundamentalism, founded on a platform of compromise. Those original compromises have multiplied over the last five decades.

(b) In the convention press packet, the following Glossary of Terms was printed:

1) Evangelicalism: “… Evangelicals, though theologically conservative, have not avoided contact with secular culture and diverse religious traditions. Evangelicalism embraces groups from both the Calvinistic and Arminian persuasion, including most of the major Pentecostal groups within the United States.”

2) Fundamentalism: “… In the 1940s, fundamentalists became distinguished from other conservative Protestants over the interpretation of several verses from the New Testament (2 Corinthians 6:14-18) … The issue came to a head over the broadly based evangelistic crusades of Billy Graham. Some rejected Graham’s involvement of entire communities [i.e., Roman Catholics and 'liberals'] in his crusades. Those who opposed such efforts continue to be known as fundamentalists.”

3) NAE “… The NAE is a voluntary association of individuals, denominations, churches, schools and organizations dedicated to united action without theological compromise … NAE was formed because evangelicals were uncomfortable both with those who espoused the theologically liberal ‘social gospel’ and fundamentalists who neglected Christian ideal for negative attacks on others [-- a classic example of the way in which evangelical compromisers seek to excuse and defend their own disobedience to the Word of God regarding Biblical separation. Scriptural reproof of and separation from false teachers, disobedient brethren, and the things of the world, in no way indicate either negative attacks on others or a lack of Christian ideals. Exactly the opposite is true (2 Tim. 4:1-5; 2 Thes. 3:6, 14,15; 1 John 2:5,15-17; Eph. 4:15)].

(c) Three major compromises were made by the founders of NAE, each of which has contributed in a large way to its numerical growth and prestige in the religious world:

  • the decision not to require separation from liberal churches or denominations as a condition of membership;
  • the decision to include Pentecostal denominations, churches, and individuals in its membership; and
  • the formulation and adoption of a very brief statement of faith which all applicants were expected to sign as a condition of membership.

(d) NAE’s Statement of Faith is so brief and lacking in specificity on several crucial doctrinal matters that it offers no real protection to its members against the admission of those who believe and teach unscriptural doctrines; e.g., the omission of the word “inerrancy” concerning the Word of God. Also, no mention is made of the Bible being our only authority — our only rule for faith and practice. There is nothing concerning salvation being entirely by grace through faith, totally apart from works or sacraments (Eph 2:8-9). These major omissions were not accidental but deliberate. NAE leaders wanted a more inclusive and broader fellowship than that prescribed by the Word of God, and that’s exactly what they got — a “diverse movement” from “many theological perspectives and ecclesiastical traditions.” [At a meeting in May, 1989, a majority of a group of 385 neo-evangelical theologians of the NAE even voted against the doctrine of eternal punishment. They proclaimed instead the Seventh-Day Adventist and Jehovah Witness doctrine of "conditionalism" or soul-sleep. (Reported in the 6/3/89, World.)]

(e) For the most part, NAE leaders are now doing their best to promote the false claim that the National and World Councils of Churches are becoming more evangelical and less liberal. Deceived by the unscriptural example and influence of evangelical leaders like Billy Graham, Bill Bright, Leighton Ford, Luis Palau, and other compromisers, many of those in the NAE and other evangelicals around the world are now joining with Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and NCC and WCC liberals in prayer, worship, evangelism, social action, and efforts for world peace. For 50 years, the NAE has insisted on having God-forbidden fellowship. For 50 years, it has refused to exercise God-commanded reproof.

(f) Some very glaring inconsistencies surfaced again at the various sessions at the convention. Two speakers shared the platform at the closing session — evangelist Peter Kusmic, who is generally considered to be the premier evangelical leader in Eastern Europe, and Dr. Billy Graham. Talk about inconsistencies! Here are two top evangelical leaders speaking on the same program. One leader (Kusmic) talks about the dangers posed by the false teachings of the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches, and the other (Graham), departing from his prepared text, reported that he would be holding meetings later in 1992 with the Orthodox leaders in Russia and with Roman Catholic leaders in Eastern Europe.

(g) The one pastor and church which was held up as an example for other evangelicals to follow was Bill Hybels of Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Illinois. It would be difficult to find any other church which has incorporated more worldliness in its programs than this one.

-  In 4/95, the Ohio Bible Fellowship passed a resolution on the NAE. This statement still accurately represents what is wrong with the NAE:

“the NAE is adopting a position that is more in line with the social gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. … established in 1942 as an organization striving for a moderate position between the Federal Council of Churches (which became the National Council of Churches in 1950) and the American Council of Christian Churches, and has grown to represent 80 denominations and 50,000 churches. NAE adopted a minimalistic doctrinal statement which did not require separation from apostasy and was tolerant of charismatic groups … the NAE is thoroughly ecumenical and is dedicated to racial reconciliation, societal morality, social concerns and gender sensitivity at the expense of entangling alliances and blurring of the true Gospel. … Recent [NAE] resolutions include: (1) a one page document acknowledging the sin of racism and calling on churches, institutions, and individuals to ‘foster a new climate of sensitivity and respect,’ (2) an appeal for ‘reasonable and just admissions policies for refugees and immigrants,’ and (3) an exhortation to Congress to ‘approve foreign aid budgets’ to protect humanitarian aid effort.”

-  In June 1996, Dr. Ralph Colas of the American Council of Christian Churches (ACCC) did a special report of the NAE’s 54th annual meeting held in Minneapolis 3/3/96-3/5/96. Is the NAE still a voice you can trust,” as Billy Melvin claimed in 1992? Sadly, it wasn’t true then or now. The following paragraphs summarize Dr. Colas’ report:

(a) The theme of the convention was Reaching America: One Voice in Unity. NAE leaders admit they are moving into the “mainstream of religion” in America as they turn to social action and attempt to salvage neighborhoods and cities. At a press conference, a discerning reporter responded to this new emphasis on social action by saying, “You are not just going mainstream, you are moving into the mainline denominational position.” (She referred to the position of the National Council of Churches’ [NCC] mainline denominations and their commitment to social action.)

(b) Convention speakers included: Dr. John Allan Knight, general superintendent of the Church of the Nazarene; Jill Briscoe, neo-evangelical, psychologizer, author, and speaker; Joe Stowell, president of Moody Bible institute; Bishop Gilbert E. Patterson, pastor of the Temple of Deliverance in Memphis, Tennessee; Luis Palau, neo-evangelical, Catholic sympathizer and international evangelist; John Corts of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association; and Bill McCartney, founder of Promise Keepers. [Promise Keepers is the gigantic new (1991) "men's movement" among professing evangelical Christians. Its roots are Catholic and charismatic to the core. PK's contradictory stand on homosexuality; its promotion of secular psychology; its unscriptural feminizing of men; its depiction of Jesus as a "phallic messiah" tempted to perform homosexual acts; and its ecumenical and unbiblical teachings should dissuade any true Christian from participating. Promise Keepers is proving to be one of the most ungodly and misleading movements in the annals of Christian history.]

(c) Women played prominent roles at the Convention. Caroline Michael, Advent Christian Church, raised her hand over the group as she pronounced the benediction. She also serves as a member of the NAE’s Women’s Commission. Diana Gee, chairman of Women’s Commission, led in prayer. Jill Briscoe brought the Sunday evening message; she also serves as vice president of World Relief, a subsidiary of the NAE (its unrestricted income for 1995 was more than $24 million).

(d) The Nominating Committee brought in its report, and the body voted on the individuals suggested to serve on NAE’s board. Along with those elected to serve with president Donald Argue, Assembly of God, four of the six officers (including Argue) are from the Pentecostal/Charismatic denominations.

(e) Luis Palau, who it is said has spoken face-to-face to eleven million people in 63 nations, spoke on History Past and History Present. He challenged convention attendees to “practice our oneness in spite of the pressure of denominations. Promise Keepers is the touch of God with its message of reconciliation,” Palau declared. At the NAE’s banquet, Bill McCartney, founder of Promise Keepers, was given the NAE’s Lay Person of the Year Award. The NAE explained that this award is presented annually to someone who demonstrates leadership in Evangelical activity and thought. At this same banquet, Billy Graham was recognized with the NAE’s Lifetime Achievement Award.

(f) Other observations:

1. Demonstrating the NAE’s policy of unity over doctrine, NAE’s leaders have rejected the Biblical doctrine of separation. J. Elwin Wright declared, “We should be able to at least shake hands over the tops of the fences.” Stephen Paine (president of Houghton College) said, “The feeling of the NAE men has been that our organization was not founded to fight anybody.” Lewis Sperry Chafer of Dallas Seminary observed, “I believe our first obligation is in the line of positive proclamation of God’s truth rather than a negative objection against some specific enemy.” Fifty-four years later, it is evident that the NAE and NCC are working together. The NAE has moved from “shaking hands over the tops of fences” to being in the same camp. An inclusive position, such as that of the NAE, can only lead to more and more identification and compromise.

2. The National Religious Broadcasters (NRB) refused to invite President Bill Clinton to speak at their convention. However, Dr. Argue invited President Clinton to come to Minneapolis to speak to the NAE.

3. The NAE Convention recognized official visitors from NCC churches including two men and one woman, all three being pastors from American Baptist Convention churches. “Father” Jeffrey Grohs, U.S. Office of Catholics, along with one individual from an Ecumenical Institute, were also recognized from the NAE platform.

4. While its motto is Cooperation Without Compromise,” the NAE practices just the opposite. One can be in the NAE and the NCC at the same time.

-  In June 1997, Dr. Colas did a special report of the NAE’s 55th annual meeting held in Orlando 3/4/97-3/6/97. The 1997 theme was Our Shared Vision — Reaching America. The attendance was about 500. Colas’ observations (in addition to those from the 54th annual meeting) are important to note:

(a) The NAE leadership has for several years been attempting to overcome the obvious reality that most of their delegates are white, male, and middle-aged, or even older. A look at of the list of convention platform participants reveals an attempt to change the situation. At each public evening service, women had the responsibility not only of ushering, but also of reading from the Old and New Testaments and leading in prayer. At one service, it was announced that all of the women on the program that night were under 40 years of age. Moreover, Billy Graham’s daughter, Anne Graham Lotz, was the speaker at the annual banquet, which was the closing service of the convention.

(b) Speakers at this year’s convention included Dr. Crawford W. Loritts, Jr., national director of Legacy (a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ); Josh McDowell, Josh McDowell Ministries; England’s Baroness Caroline Ann Cox, Deputy Speaker of the House of Lords; Anne Graham Lotz, AnGel Ministries; Dr. David W. Johnson, a Christian & Missionary Alliance minister from Minneapolis, Minnesota; Ted Haggard, New Life Church, Colorado Springs, Colorado; Dr. David L. Erickson, Promise Keepers; George Barna, Barna Research Group; and Vonette Bright, Campus Crusade for Christ.

(c) The NAE Committee on Committees brought in their recommendations of those to be elected. Elected to the Class of 2000 of the board of directors was Ann Gimenez, woman pastor of Rock Church, Virginia Beach, Virginia. The Christian Higher Education Commission includes Joseph Stowell, president of Moody Bible Institute, and Chuck Swindoll, president of Dallas Theological Seminary.

(d) The emcee for most of the sessions was Ted Haggard, New Life Church and World Prayer Center, Colorado Springs, Colorado. Haggard is listed as one of the main speakers at three International Conferences on Prayer and Spiritual Warfare in 1997, along with other Charismatic leaders. Charisma magazine featured a full-page advertisement promoting these conferences with C. Peter Wagner of Fuller Theological Seminary, and urging everyone to attend. Haggard commented that David Yonggi Cho, the Charismatic pastor of more than 1 million church members in Korea, had influenced him. He described churches as fitting into three groups: liberal churches, life giving churches (like his church), and legalistic churches (which “cut off people’s heads with the Bible”).

(e) Other Observations:

1. The NAE represents 43,000 churches from 48 member denominations, and individual congregations from an additional 22 denominations, as well as several hundred independent churches. Their membership includes 255 parachurch ministries and educational institutions. Thus, the NAE would claim to represent over 27 million people. The largest constituency in the NAE comes from Pentecostal/Charismatic groups. [The charismatic influence in the NAE was clearly evident -- the last day of the convention began with the forming of small groups (as is done at the Fasting and Prayer Conferences). The leader continues to mention items and matters for prayer while each group then puts hands on each others' shoulders and some raise their hands over the group, a practice often seen in Charismatic meetings.)

2. Some organizations that had rented space in the Resource Center were Campus Crusade for Christ, Mission America, Habitat for Humanity, Pioneer Clubs, Reformed Theological Seminary, American Bible Society, Pocket Testament League, and Promise Keepers, the latter which was heavily promoted at the convention.

3. One of the busy spots at the convention was the "Christians for Biblical Equality" exhibit. This group made available the books Women Elders Called By God and What Paul Really Said About Women. This radical group is calling for women's ordination and rejecting the Scripture texts that forbid women serving as pastors and elders. Their statement said, "We believe that Scripture is to be interpreted holistically and thematically. The Bible teaches that in the New Testament economy women as well as men exercise the prophetic, priestly and royal functions. Women are to be used in pastoral care, teaching, preaching and worship." Among those who signed this declaration were Stuart Briscoe, Tony Campolo, Vernon Grounds, David Allen Hubbard, Bill Hybels, Richard Mouw, and Ron Sider.

4. At the final press conference, Dr. Donald Argue, president, was asked if he had received negative feedback because he spoke at the NCC General Assembly meeting. He replied that the leaders of the NAE were supportive and that he had a wonderful opportunity to tell the NCC leaders what an Evangelical really is. Joan Brown Campbell, NCC general secretary and a divorced American Baptist clergywoman, was quoted by the press: "Dr. Argue comes with the blessing of his board, and I think this makes it more significant." Both Campbell and Argue said shared issues -- from racism to pornography -- have promoted new communication between their groups. Ignoring Biblical instructions forbidding the joining of hands with the radical, ecumenical, liberal NCC leaders, the NAE reaches out in warmth and love to this apostate organization.

5. The NAE leaders intend to radically change the makeup of the program at NAE conventions. They continue to reinforce their alignment with Mission America and Promise Keepers. The NAE leadership, in fulfilling a previous determination, is using women, younger leaders, and people of color on their platform as well as seeing that they serve as members of commissions and committees.

6. The planned reception of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG) into full membership (formally voted into membership on May 7th) will give the credibility WCG leaders desire. The NAE attendees gave Joseph Tkach, WCG's leader, a standing ovation [and later made him an NAE Board member!]. When Dr. Argue was given the WCG’s statement on the Scriptures — which is not even Evangelical, let alone Fundamentalist — his response was that the president of Fuller Seminary had examined the doctrinal statement of the WWCG and found it to be in order.

7. The NAE has increased its visibility and influence. For example, Dr. Argue serves on a U.S. State Department committee regarding religious persecution. He also participated in President Clinton’s pre-inaugural worship service, along with Tony Campolo, Bill Hybels, and Luis Palau. The truth remains that the NAE has embraced many of the same programs that the National and World Councils of Churches hold — fighting racism, caring for the poor and oppressed, and demanding justice. Argue said that “If we are not faithful to this calling and this day of opportunity, God have mercy on us.”

8. Churches that maintain membership in denominations that are a part of both the NCC and WCC are welcomed as members of the NAE. Some of those churches are part of the American Baptist Churches, the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Reformed Church in America, the United Church of Christ, and the United Methodist Church. This religious hodgepodge comes about because the NAE continues as an inclusive organization.

-  In June 2003, Dr. Ralph Colas did a special report of the NAE’s 61st annual meeting held in Eden Park, MN, March 6-7, 2003. Colas’ observations (in addition to those from the 54th and 55th annual meetings) are important to note:

(a) Because of internal strife at the 2001, 59th annual NAE convention, no 60th convention was held in 2002. The controversy two years ago erupted because of decisions by Dr. Kevin Mannoia, the NAE President at the time, to move the NAE office to the west coast at great expense, and also to open the NAE to entire denominations that held membership in both the National and World Council of Churches. [In 2002, the NAE voted to move back to Washington, D.C., presumably at further "great expense."] The Presbyterian Church of America, a constituent body in the NAE, raised a strong protest and even threatened to leave. Though there are many individual churches in the NAE that are also in the National and World Councils, this was an attempt by Dr. Mannoia to expand the NAE by bringing the Reformed Church in America into full membership. The issue was resolved when the NAE Board of Directors received the resignation of Mannoia and adopted a resolution forbidding entire denominations from being received into membership in the NAE.

(b) Dr. Leith Anderson was selected as the NAE interim-president while still remaining the senior pastor of Wooddale Church in Minnesota, the host church for the 61st convention. Dr. Anderson brought a measure of stability by his leadership and led the NAE in repaying the hundreds of thousands of dollars owed. He resigned as president at the close of the 61st convention, and a few days later it was announced that Dr. Ted Haggard, senior pastor of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, was selected. Haggard’s church is building a 12,000 seat sanctuary on land near the Air Force Academy. He is a charismatic who also serves as president of The World Prayer Center, a strategic center for worldwide evangelistic prayer. [C. Peter Wagner, who taught church growth at Fuller Seminary, is the "general" who leads Christians in spiritual warfare at the WPC (5/15/99, Calvary Contender).] Dr. Bill Hamel, president of the Evangelical Free Church of America and NAE Board Chairman, said, “Ted Haggard will give evangelicals a positive and proactive leadership voice. His commitment to bringing evangelicals together for mission, prayer, and a united voice is a deeply held value that is acknowledged and known throughout the evangelical world.”

(c) During one of the assembly sessions at the Wooddale Church, Dr. Haggard not only announced that his church would host NAE’s Convention in 2004, but also said that the program would be built around an emphasis on “the mega churches in the USA. We will have Dr. Robert Schuller of the Crystal Cathedral as one of our main speakers!” The fact that Dr. Schuller is both a Universalist and an apostate never seemed to be an issue.

(d) Other observations:

1. The NAE from its birth in 1942 has been committed to an inclusive policy. It failed to demand separation from the NCC/WCC in order to become a part of NAE. The majority of churches in the NAE are Pentecostal/Charismatic. That is certainly seen in the choice of Dr. Haggard as its new president. A previous president was Dr. Donald Argue, a leader in the Assemblies of God denomination.

2. The attendance at NAE Conventions in the past has averaged about 500. This year there were less than 200 who were registered.

3. The budget for the NAE is $700,000 and it was announced that they were now in the black again.

4. The new evangelical Mission America Coalition (MAC) recently formed an alliance with the NAE in an attempt to reach America for Christ. Honorary Co-Chairs of the MAC are Bill Bright [now deceased], Billy Graham and John Perkins. It is another illustration of ecumenical evangelism that is a trademark of the new evangelical movement.

5. One of the displays at this year’s NAE Convention was the Evangelical Environmental Network with their posters containing the question, “What would Jesus Drive?” This foolish question raises the kind of issue that makes people feel good but it comes across as an anti-SUV bandwagon!

6. Biblical separation is neither taught nor practiced at NAE and NRB functions. God’s Word clearly teaches separation from both apostasy and compromise (II Timothy 3:1-5; II Corinthians 6:14-18; Ephesians 5:11; II Thessalonians 3:6; Revelation 18:4).

Biblical Discernment Ministries - Revised 2/2004

Charismania Gone Nuts – AOG Together with LDS!

September 25, 2013

AOGLDSI did not expect to wake up to this wacky news brought to me by my friends at Stand Up For The Truth – my hat off to them getting out the warning of a new danger!

BYU Newspaper reports Interfaith discussion with AOG Superintendent

“Wood expressed that the Assembly of God’s 66 million members test out their faith just like Latter-day Saints do. He urged the audience to seek a strong faith through diligent study of the scriptures.

“The question for me in college became, ‘Is experience enough to carry me through?’” Wood said. “I had to have a stronger, intellectual foundation for my faith.”

Wood showed that God is playing a role in all religions and that Christians are more united than they sometimes think.” Quote from, Assembly of God CEO addresses BYU students

From Stand Up for the Truth,”The question is, united around what? Around which God? The eternal Christ that Christians worship, or the created being whose brother is Lucifer?”

No you are not “being punked,” here are two separate links with Mormon/LDS Brigham Young University itself:

George O. Wood, CEO of the Assemblies of God, to Speak Monday, Sept 16

Assembly of God CEO addresses BYU students

In my opinion this news is SHOCKING! The Assembly of God (charismatic) denomination together with the Mormons – Church of Latter Day Saints (cult)! This would be as big as if the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) president spoke at the Mormon university in a FAVORABLE way! The Assembly of God CEO must have forgotten Mormons worship ANOTHER Jesus who is NO Jesus at ALL! To anyone joining hands with Mormons I remind you what the Bible plainly teaches in many places but the strongest words are here Galatians 1:6-9

“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”

The Church of Latter Day Saints teaches another Gospel revealed to a man Joseph Smith by a supposed angel Moroni. Why would anyone who is in Christ listen to much less join hands with Mormons? On our Biblical Discernment Ministries site we have the article “Mormonism – Christian or Cult” following is a large excerpt to help any uninformed readers:

The Book of Mormon, purported by Joseph Smith Jr. to be “inspired by God,” is the most famous of specifically Mormon “scriptures.” Smith concocted the preposterous yarn that an angel named Moroni (pronounced ma-roe-nee) appeared to him in 1827 and told him of some golden plates hidden in a hillside near Palmyra, New York. From these plates, Smith supposedly translated the Book of Mormon. [Published in 1830, this was to become the first of many scriptures for the Mormon Church. By this time, Smith had also officially organized the LDS Church and was gaining a following. Over the next ten years, the church headquarters would move to Kirtland, Ohio; Independence, Missouri, and Far West, Missouri. Finally it would find a resting place in Nauvoo, Illinois.] In actuality, the Book of Mormon is a fraud, having been plagiarized from the Bible, from Shakespeare, from the pope’s Essays on Man, from the Westminster Confession of Faith, and from other leading authors of the last few hundred years prior to Smith’s death. Despite its plagiarisms, the Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible in hundreds of places (9/95, Maranatha Baptist Watchman).

Many today are under the false impression that Mormonism is merely another Christian denomination, when in actuality, Mormon beliefs are not only unbiblical, but anti-Christian. Below are the highlights of what Mormons believe concerning their source of authority, the Trinity, God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, sin, salvation, and heaven and hell:

1. Source of Authority. Mormonism teaches that the canon of Scripture was not closed when the Bible was completed. They have three sources in addition to the Bible, all of which they believe contain God’s revelations — the Book of Mormon 2 (changed in more than 4,000 places since 1830), Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. However, Mormons follow the teachings of these three books even when they contradict the Bible. For example, Mormonism teaches that the Bible is the Word of God “as far as it is translated correctly.” Then whenever a Mormon belief contradicts Scripture, the Mormons say that particular part of Scripture is translated incorrectly, and that the correct translation is in one of the Mormon scriptures (The Maze of Mormonism, p. 131). Thereby, the Bible is rejected as the infallible Word of God. [e.g. "The Bible is considered usable, but suspect due to its many errors and missing parts" (Articles of Faith No. 8, Ensign, January 1989, pp. 25, 27). For the rest of the article at the Biblical Discernment Ministries site "Mormonism - Christian or Cult"

Anyone who would join hands with the Mormons makes me question if they are a Christian because Mormonism is not Christian. I believer strongly the teachings of Mormonism are dangerous and anyone joining hands with them must be avoided.

2 John 1:9-11 "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”

John Beardsley
II Cor 10:5


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